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CenterPoint prepares final pitch
CenterPoint development on the agenda for Council meeting
Published Saturday, January 17, 2009
Troy Cooper
The CenterPoint development is proposed to be on Route 58. The above illustration is a map of what this area will cover in Suffolk.
A public hearing and possible vote on the rezoning of property for the CenterPoint development are on the agenda for Suffolk City Council’s consideration Wednesday. The meeting begins at 7 p.m. in city council chambers at the municipal building, 441 Market St.
CenterPoint Properties, an Illinois-based developer, hopes to rezone about half the land it owns on U.S. Route 58, west of the congested area commonly known as “Hamburger Alley.”
The plan, as conceived by CenterPoint, would result in construction of an intermodal center that would include 13 buildings encompassing 5.8 million square feet of light and heavy industrial and distribution space, office space and general commercial facilities, as well as a rail yard adjacent to the CSX rail line.
CenterPoint believes the Suffolk site is the best for its use.
“It would be advantageous to us, because it’s an industrial park that’s in a good location relative to both the port and the population,” said Neil Doyle, executive vice president for infrastructure and transportation development for CenterPoint. “I think it will be good for Suffolk because it’s going to be a huge economic development driver.”
The project, CenterPoint estimates, will bring about 3,000 jobs – one job for every 27 Suffolk residents – and millions of dollars in real estate taxes. However, trucks traveling to and from the development would use a stretch of U.S. Route 58 that already faces crippling traffic during most daylight hours on weekdays.
The developers have offered about $3.5 million for Holland Road improvements, as well as about $6.5 million in other off-site improvements, such as sewer extensions. However, estimates to widen Holland Road to six lanes range from $54 million to $94 million.
Doyle said the list of reasons CenterPoint chose Suffolk is a long one.
“We’re there because of the Virginia Port Authority, available land, the highway accessibility, the rail accessibility, the labor availability and most importantly, that the land that we purchased, half of it was zoned for what we require, and what was not zoned was in the existing Suffolk comprehensive plan for industrial use.”
The Virginia Port Authority is excited about potentially having the project so close, said Joe Harris, a spokesman for the authority.
“This would be an important piece of cargo handling infrastructure, and a company like CenterPoint, its reputation is well-known,” Harris said. “It would be another tool for us to go and market when we’re selling the services of this port.”
To have such a large intermodal center so close would help alleviate the growing need for facilities that are equipped to handle large containers.
“This would fill a portion of that need,” he said. “As the port grows, there’s going to be more demand for those kind of facilities.”
Harris said that although there is a perception that Hampton Roads traffic is congested, the area has far less congestion than, say, New York or Charleston, S.C.
However, the rail yard portion of the CenterPoint development could help address that issue, as well, he said.
“The more things we can move out of here by rail, that’s good for business and good for congestion,” he said.
Doyle said he hopes for a “yes” vote on Wednesday.
“We’ve always thought this was a good idea, but in today’s economic climate, it’s going to be a very good idea.”
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Comments
Posted by mdvgarcia (anonymous) on January 18, 2009 at 8:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Suffolk City Counsel:
Please vote yes to rezone and enable the railroad to bring jobs to Suffolk.
V/r
Ross
Posted by OD (anonymous) on January 18, 2009 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
How many will have the nerve to vote NO? Lets see it was 7000 jobs at first then 2000 and now its back to 3000. Sounds a little like Obamas use of numbers regarding where the actual income benchmark to be used for taxes. Based on the status of the maritime business and this type of facility is, TRUCKS will be the primary force in moving containers in and out of the facility. Not rail. Do you know how long and what it will take for the rail to move the containers in a timely manner and at a profit? Trucks will go direct and it will take say 4 hours minimum. One hour in or out,one hour to get to the steamship terminal.and or end user locally. One hour in/out. Rail will take several days of handling and delievery.
We keep reading about the rail line. Is the cost of the rail spur to gain entry to the facility included in the price? Will the CSX have the right to make delievery of containers into and out of the facility, or will the terminal operators provide a locamotive to do that? if not how many days of the week will the CSX be placing the containers in or out of the facility.?
What impact will there be on the enviroment? Will this be a 24hour a day operation? Will Centerpoint be providing the senior management to run the operation. What will be the income level for the various jobs that it will bring? Will the security type positions be contracted out or will they be a part of the job package? Is it the idea of Centerpoint that this facility will remain private? Non Union? Folks there are a lot of questions that need to be asked, its not just about jobs.
Posted by mdvgarcia (anonymous) on January 18, 2009 at 9:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Anonymous:
Truck may be the primary force in moving containers in and out of Port Norfolk now, however current and future signals of change beg to infuse a railway infrastructure to supplement how imports are moved away from and toward our growing port near by.
That's a great analysis on how trucks systematically move in, pick a shipment and move out. I can only imagine how many over the road trucks move in and out of Port Norfolk and through Suffolk each day. As the port continues to grow, so does the traffic congestion. The traffic congestion on Hampton Road highways is one reminder how many trucks are on the road. As Port Norfolk expands, more trucks, more congestion. I'm no environmental expert, but I'm sure more trucks is not good for our environment. Business as usual when it comes to transporting goods through out our country is not indicated in our nations strategy as we desire to diminish our dependency on foreign oil.
Questions about locomotive operators provided by the terminal, privatization, non-union and Centerpoint management issues are fundamental management problems. The potential railroads, if managed in our cities best interest, can be apart of a bigger change in our nations transportation system. That includes providing jobs.
Your right anonymous, it's not just about jobs. It's also about promoting change to meet future demand signals of transporting goods in and out of the near by growing port. The lesson learned from reading media numbers as subsequent reports are posted; in this example jobs, is we need to see past media figures that attempt to draw readers toward a story.
I have faith in the Suffolk City Counsel. In my opinion voting yes for re-zoning property for Centerpoint Development indicates our city leaders are change agents the State of Virginia needs to govern our citizens through the next evolution of change.
Just to be far to our readers, I'm in no way affiliated with Centerpoint or Port Norfolk. I'm just an average Suffolk citizen.
Ross
Sleepy Hole Borough
Posted by OD (anonymous) on January 18, 2009 at 10:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Nice and well thought comments Ross. But let me remind you that we are in a recession. The Virginia Port Authority is putting expanison projects on the back burner. Why? Money. Transportation plans are generated with money. Money that the city surely doesnt have, and the state rep Jones is warning the city, not to look to them. The city needs the bridge, the mayor wants to widen a road to the north. Throw in the problems on Holland road, Do you really think that Suffolk will be taken care of by the new powers to be in D.C. Sorry there is only one thing new to D.C. the rest is the same old Clinton elietes.Hope is all we have left.
You rightfully said many of the issues on the internal side of things for the terminal are just that. However the paying public has the right to know.
You say the port of Norfolk, lets not forget that the Port of Norfolk is a part of the port area known as the Port or Ports of Hampton Roads. Cheasapeake, Norfolk, Portsmouth, New Port News all will be contributing good and bad to this facility.
In response to the rail comments. Customers or owners of the goods imported and exported will not see a return on those goods (profit) in a timely manner due to the slow operations of rail service providers. Trucking rates and services are the perfered mode of transportation of shippers. Sorry ,its fact. just 5 months ago trucking companies and independents were charging 48% fuel surcharges. Today that is down to 16%. Even with all of the talk about alternative fuels I doubt you will be seeing any Kenworths running on solar or wind power. I work in the industry of transportation and my knowledge of issues with in it are a part of my job description. Supply chain management, terminal operations EPA issues, fuel costs warehousing etc etc the maritime industry is taking a beating like no other time in history. Containers are the life blood of the importing and exporting community. Here is the U.S. its the trucking industry. Trucking is cheaper and faster than rail. The steel industry is a major player in the transportaion industry as well. Trinity Industries a major builder of rail and tank cars, is laying off. Steel prices are going thru the roof and there are no new orders or demand for steel. Steel used in the auto industry. Enough of all of this. Bottom line is that the city must demand a tariff or a tax of $35.00 on every 20ft 40 ft container that goes in and out of the facility. The truckers are not going to like it nor the owners of the goods in those containers. They will be the ones having to pay. Every container should be weighed upon entering the facility. many terminals across the nation charge a $10.00 fee. These fees should be paid to the city as a mean of seeing that there is a cash flow to help in the upkeep and improving the roads leading in and out of the facility.This tariff/tax or fee, will not be paid for the average citizen known as a Suffolkian like yourself
Posted by ellistemple (anonymous) on January 19, 2009 at 12:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here is some thing to think about. How about a 4 lane road on the south side of the CSX railroad from the middle of the industry park to the southwest express way. Go to googleearth and look at crossover the rail road at N36 42 28.27 W76 37 13.00. This would not endanger the students from the local schools. Also the traffic from target could be routed on to this trucks only highway, one of the first in the country
Posted by OD (anonymous) on January 19, 2009 at 1:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ellis: In a earlier mail I suggested a frontage road that would be built that would have its own entry for trucks to use to enter into the facility. Should this lane be 1000 ft long, 1/2 mile etc etc. Problem still exist what are you going to do with the trucks coming in east bound? They are going to have to cross over lanes of traffic heading west. I guss you could build a single lane for that and all of this intersection would be controlled with dual lanes where the trucks have their own lane to exit to turn back to the east and then the west. Where do you put the traffic lane for the trucks coming from the west? Your still going to have trucks crossing over other lanes of traffic. Its not just about the school traffic but all traffic. The highway is going to need to have flashing lights like a school zone and the zoned area will have to have posted speeds of what.20-25-30 MPH. The signs must have verbiage such as Industrial area ahead.
My company imports and exports thru the Port of Hampton Roads and we would pay the following for a 40 ft container from Portsmouth to Suffolk $380.00 Norfolk the same Cheasapeak the same, from NN its 485.. this does not include the fuel surcharge of 16.8% at todays present conditions. It is the same charge going or coming. If the container is carrying haz mat type cargoes you can add 100.00 to the base price. One other way to control these trucks is that once they enter Suffolk road ways they must stay out of the left lane, make them move to the slower right one and watch the city revenues go up when the boys in blue use their speed guns and pay attention to the sign that says all trucks move to the right.
I hope that the city is willing to pay for all who contribute to solving the problems and potential problems that we all can see and find just hanging out there..lol
Posted by mdvgarcia (anonymous) on January 19, 2009 at 2:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
OD Anonymous:
Thank you for revealing your expertise on the transportation subject. As a 50 mile a day commuter to and from work all's I see is congestion on our highways getting worse and more over the road trucks plugging our major interstate system. The great work VDOT conducted on Interstate Highway 64 near Greenbrier Mall that expanded the highway is already clogging up again.
Understand trucks may be the preferred delivery method because of speed. Is it the preferred method of delivery to all destinations and customers? What is the trade off between speed and cost to move goods at a slower pace?
A 48% surcharge due to rising fuel cost still begs a consumer like me to wonder what alternative plans are there to get us out of the grips of foreign oil dependency. Again, I'm not a transportation expert, but I know fuel prices will go up again. I'll bet you dinner OD, at one of our local Suffolk diners that 48% surcharge will return again before 18 months time.
I'm not saying railroad transportation could ever replace the fabulous trucking industry completely. I'm also not convinced the railroad system can't provide some relief to our highway infrastructure. Weather its in public transportation or transporting goods, I ask you OD should a railway system be completely pushed off the table. I'm open to your expertise.
As for funding transportation infrastructure projects, I'm not opposed to imposing tariffs or tolls to pay for transportation improvements in our area. I think your tariff to weight container ratio is a great idea. I'm not a fan of our local or state government depending on the federal government for much of anything except education and border control. As for the truckers and owners of the items inside the containers, that's the price for running trucks over uncongested and pot holeless roads. If the tariffs are managed in the best interest of our local citizens and long term job creation is in the future, again, change agents can materialize this vision.
I say vote yes on rezoning and OD's idea of a tariff to weight ratio on containers to build highway expansion and any transportation infrastructure improvements.
V/r
Ross
Sleep Hole Borough
Posted by ellistemple (anonymous) on January 19, 2009 at 4:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
OD: Have the north, south and east traffic use the Southwest expressway. The West end traffic would have a enterance on the west side with a fly over for the out going traffic. This would have none of the traffic from the park going pass a school zone .
Posted by OD (anonymous) on January 19, 2009 at 7:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
mdv Ross
It is said that 80% of our commerce is over the road via of truck. No sane supply chain type manager wants his inventory still on the books at the end of a 30 day cycle and beyond. Commerce, international moves on letters of credit thru banks that provide cash, on presentation of documents. When a shipment is deemed on its way, having a bill of lading, that supplier then can go into that bank and be paid immediately. Doesnt make any difference if its via of ship, plane, truck or rail. the shipper isnt concerned abt how long it will take, 3 months,weeks days or hours. Rail rates are very high, there is a shortage of rail cars and their types. , INCO Terms is what international trade is based on. You have to also throw into the mix what is called COP (custom of the port) After all that and using an outside terminal off site from the port such as Centerpoint, you have to work around and with how that terminal works. i think that this gives you an idea of what will take place. Take all of that but substitue the delivery to the customer and he does have a rail spur, if not where will he have to go to get his goods? Hire a truck to go to a terminal such as CP. Repeat first verse second verse can be the same as the first.
I agree that 48% fuel will be back., lets see what the speculators will do and how Wash will fit into it.
At one time shippers and trucker could live with a rate for transportation only by the mile and that was once $1.50 a mile. That doesnt fly anymore. I didnt mention what we would pay for a 40 fter from suffolk to Richmond is based on transport only 580 plus fuel. figure out that per the mile, dont forget the costs at the dock charges the terminal and how it will be unloaded or loaded. And the main thing is the trucker has to come home and bring back a empty too. You see rail cars come thru suffolk carrying containers. (piggyback)here is where the rail is the way to go. Ships arrive importing goods. its cheaper for the steamship company to sign a contract called a slot agreement or a unit contract with a particular rail group Ship arrives either coast however the goods need to go across the states based on VOLUME, it is the way to ship those containers to a hub or terminal where what comes in and picks them up to actually take the goods to the end user? You got it a truck.
As far as the govt goes, that is another #@#%##@! topic all together, best thing to do is keep them out of it. What ever the terminal folks want to charge truckers, the city is going to have to negotiate something for themselves to use for road improvement and up keep.Best way in my opinion is a flat fee type tariff. The question that needs to be asked is, if you were a steamship owner why would you want to use a facility that is bascially 70 miles round trip from the port itself? Only thing that i can come up with is volume, and in this recession and the status of world trade, i dont see it and wont for at least until 2010/11 or even longer.
Posted by mdvgarcia (anonymous) on January 21, 2009 at 9:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
OD:
Outstanding facts OD. That is what the citizens need to see and hear instead of skimming of the top of media to draw conclusions.
Still, getting back to the Centerpoint re-zoning project: Cost to secure the project now compared to future cost when volume in world trade returns and inflation returns; again I don't mind entertaining a tariff or toll versus an across the board tax increase. My point is, if there is merit in rail shipping by volume, wouldn't you agree to set up and secure the infrastructure potential now instead of being re-active, as government lessons learned often show, before world trade and volume are suitable for implementation again. The economy will regain momentum in a couple of years like you say. Who knows how much fuel costs will be than? Until then, I'd like to see a strategy that will contribute to relieving dependency on foreign oil, attracting income for Suffolk created by jobs not increased property taxes, and a way ahead on relieving traffic congestion that doesn't mean fattening four lane highways to 10 lane highways in both directions.
R/
Ross
Sleep Hole Borough
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